**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 06:05

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 06:05

Cobalt @Cobalt

Jun 21, 2018, 06:05

empathy as morality prereq, subtoot Show more

Every time I see "empathy is how we make morality happen!" I take a deep bracing breath and my face goes :|

This argument presumes affective empathy (I feel what you feel) is accessible to everyone when many neuroatypical ppl do better with cognitive empathy (what you feel makes sense to me). It also presumes that basing morality on the emotions we experience (that we can, that we are, that we might) is desirable.

Both of these matter.

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · 2018-06-21T06:13:27Z

Cobalt @Cobalt

empathy as morality prereq Show more

1: affective > cognitive empathy. One thing I've learned as an #ActuallyAutistic person is that I'm not the only one with a high error rate. I'm just disturbed by it, & it happens in ways that allistics (according to many autistic ppl's experiences & at least one supportive study) don't like to adjust for.

If spontaneously felt emotion were the real root of morality, intentionality would undermine ppl's ability to be moral instead of informing it. A bizarre assertion.

Jun 21, 2018, 06:13 · Web · 0 · 6

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 06:17

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 06:17

Jun 21, 2018, 06:17

Cobalt @Cobalt

empathy as morality prereq Show more

2: The assumption that affective empathy is better at making ppl "be good" falls down in two ways. First, emotions are ephemeral experiences we have & changing our morality depending on how big our Feels are today is how you get ppl thinking they can blame racist behavior on their Ambien.

The worst way tho is that white ppl have a demonstrable empathy deficit wrt POC. Our mirroring literally works less well w their pain than fellow white ppl's pain.

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 06:22

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 06:22

Jun 21, 2018, 06:22

Cobalt @Cobalt

empathy as morality prereq Show more

So why in the entire hell would anyone suggest that such demonstrably-flawed neurology be our basis for determining how we ought to treat others?

Ppl behaving intentionally, working out their values and boundaries in ways that may seem counterintuitive to ppl used to being jerked around by whim & reflex? This is FINE. Ppl who can't be yanked into instant compliance by the heartstrings may just be self-aware RE: decision-making limitations of heartstrings.

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 06:28

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 06:28

Jun 21, 2018, 06:28

Cobalt @Cobalt

empathy as morality prereq Show more

(In conclusion:

spontaneous and sentimental people aren't more trustworthy just bc they didn't take time to think before they spoke/acted,

intentional people aren't always scheming manipulators just bc they probably did,

and the person who's most visibly distressed may not always be the one doing the most difficult or impactful moral work. Only thinking can answer that situation by situation.)

💔 @pan@glitch.social · Jun 21, 2018, 21:26

💔 @pan@glitch.social · Jun 21, 2018, 21:26

Jun 21, 2018, 21:26

💔 @pan@glitch.social

empathy as morality prereq Show more

@Cobalt this is a really good thread and i like it a lot

idk what you're responding to so , i have something to add just while you're talking about empathy in this way, even tho maybe it's irrelevant to what yr responding to?

people with strong empathy can also use it to be More cruel

it's a misconception that people who hurt people dont really understand/aren't thinking about the pain they're causing. plenty of people understand just fine and act like they don't

💔 @pan@glitch.social · Jun 21, 2018, 21:26

💔 @pan@glitch.social · Jun 21, 2018, 21:26

Jun 21, 2018, 21:26

💔 @pan@glitch.social

empathy as morality prereq Show more

@Cobalt sorry i just love a good thread deconstructing Empathy As Morality

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 21:40

**Cobalt** @Cobalt · Jun 21, 2018, 21:40

Jun 21, 2018, 21:40

Cobalt @Cobalt

empathy as morality prereq Show more

@pan Yes!!

Related: A lot of people find the pain of others pleasing/validating completely aside from what perceived "problems" it solves, even just on an "I'm hurting and only ppl who are clearly viscerally distressed have joined me on My Side," level. I attract this kind of behavior and have had to learn not to perform a collapse to validate ppl who consider it the only reliable metric for who cares "enough" about them. Ppl like this love empathy.