So here's a thing about and

Another lesson in don't believe white people's idea of history, b/c oh hey they're full of shit. Also, whites make up history for political reasons

@dirething I just want a bot that post those cute horse picture now.
Really cool article, thanks for sharing.

@dirething This is really cool. Anthropologists have been very guilty of erasing histories like this. It's good to see research proving them wrong

@dirething Oh now! This is something I'm going to link my parents, we had a (civilised) argument about it where we were mostly just confused at each other.

colonialism, roasting white people 

@dirething fucking amazing article.

Only thing I would change would be the phrase “horse history”....clearly it should be horstory!

@dirething Welp, I learned something interesting and unlearned another myth.

@dirething wait is this something White Americans believe? That they brought horses?

Where, what?

As a European, I knew this wasn't the case. My mind is blown at revisionist Amurica right now.. 🤯

@maloki @dirething

If you want to insult white bros, remind them that it' actually cows that aren't native.

There were a bunch of piss-whiny cowboys in Eastern Oregon a few years back who tried to get away with grazing their livestock on BLM land. They later trashed a migratory bird reserve. These guys are the epitome of evil WS whose denial and disrespect of history makes them disgusting.

I live uncomfortably close to where all that happens, and there's *lots* of their supporters out here too >_<

@maloki that's so interesting; I had no idea europeans were taught differently. do they tell you anything about when people ended up in the americas? Here at least, they try super hard to make the time period really short, or say that the paleolithic people here aren't direct ancestors (they are). they've also tried *several* times to make it so really europeans were here first, including the guy who did(?) run the smithsonian

@dirething hmm. I'm not sure I remember, but like we learnt the the vikings were probably there trading long before Columbus went over.

We know that the Spanish are the reason a lot of people in South America died out., same with NA, but other people arrived, etc.
I know I learnt about slavery, also our own context there.

I dunno how much I learnt in school and outside of it.

That said, we barely were taught anything about our own natives (Sami). So 🤷‍♀️

@maloki oh wow, that we died out? that's upsetting :(

it's really tragic how much Native people, even those in europe, are so glossed over!

@dirething no not died out entirely, but like the desease that was brought. Made a whole mess in its own

@dirething sorry, my words are not doing well right now. I'm tired and have a headache. 🙃
I'll come back to you tomorrow

@maloki @dirething The revisionism goes deep here. There's been improvement in the last 30-40 years, but when I was in school (~2000) it wasn't until you got to college that year really learned much about pre-Columbian Americas at all. In high school it was glossed and ignored as much as much as possible.

Now my kids are learning *some* real stuff in grade school, but it's mixed in with revisionist Squanto and the Pilgrims crap.

@maloki @dirething But, this is coming from an educational system that taught completely made-up bullshit like George Washington and the Cherry Tree and Columbus 'discovered the Earth is round' as fact for something over a hundred years.

Our 'history' classes have been largely propoganda since my grandparents were in school at least.

you don't want to know what we learned about WWII!

@maloki @dirething I'm generally not a 'burn it to the ground' person, but when it comes to the US educational system, I'm happy to hand out torches.

@maloki @dirething 👋 american person here... i don't think i had heard this particular tale, but it may have been a fluke of my path through education (part homeschool, part a private school in middle, then public highschool)

@maloki @dirething I got a better and less biased history education than most white American kids of my generation, and even I was taught that Europeans introduced horses to the Americas. It never made much sense to me, given how integrated they were into native cultures. How could that happen so quickly and seamlessly? So I'm glad to see this correction to the white settler bullshit I was taught.

@dirething Do you know if these papers have been peer-reviewed, or published somewhere? I've skimmed through one and it seems there are some issues with the methodology used, though I'm not a sociologist, achaeologist, or paleontologist (etc.) to be all that confident.

@dirething The fact that I've yet so see any references or citations worries me. There's a lot of asserting, not a lot of validating. There's also a general conspiratorial tone involving the academic consensus, which is also concerning.

One thing I want to note. There's a theme throught these papers of "Europeans think horses = civilization, so had to ignore native horses to justify it." The authors seem to then go a long way to show horses did exist, and by proxy the natives /were/ civilized? Which seems to be following the same flawed logic of horses = civilization.

The Inca, Nahuatl, Mississippi, the people that cultivated the friggin' Amazon, etc. did wonders; what does trying to work around fossil evidence to say "but they also maybe had horses?" add beyond playing into the incorrect view of 16th- century imperialists?

Cripes, @sashahamilton listen, if you wanna be racist and really embrace colonialism, just do it. Pretending you're "just" being "objective" and at'ing me over and over won't trick me into thinking that you're totes actually just coincidentally smarter than Natives. Did you bother to read my bio? My pinned toots? You really think I'm gonna get tricked into taking part in the dehumanization of my siblings and cousins of Turtle Island to Abya Yala by the likes of you? Fuck off

@dirething @sashahamilton Like, indigenous oral history is consistently turning out to be incredibly accurate but you're going to turn out to defend the colonial academic consensus?

And "conspiratorial tone"? Like, seriously, you're surprised folks are suspicious of an academic consensus that
has been rooted in racism for centuries and has been systematically erasing indigenous history for generations?

@sashahamilton @dirething

Because when one overrepresented and unjustly powerful group of people control a narrative and all the institutions that substantiate that narrative, you have to speak to that narrative to break it. How does that not make sense to you?

@dirething I think native american horses are absolutely fantastic.
I'm a die hard fan of icelandic horses but directly after them I'm a fan of the horses you people have bred. so beautiful and strong.

thanks for the link!

@dirething I'm aware of the fact that I'm only aware of the horse breeds that have become popular in europe..

@dirething 1. I was never into horses as a kid, but OMG WHAT CUTE HORSIES!! 😍
2. More seriously. This is why I want indigenous people in anthropology/archaeology, though from what I've seen with my own eyes (at my wonderbread undergrad institution) I cannot blame anyone who doesn't want to go into it. When your answer is "there's scholarships/grants" implied to be enough in an openly hostile environment, and there was something else, but I couldn't put my finger on it. It felt, voyeuristic?

I can only imagine the withering glare with which she delivered this line near the end:
"Then if you take a closer look, this land that the horses are on is the same land from which corporations are trying to extract resources or water. So, they’re just moving them around, taking away their homeland and their ability to have any habitat that’s at all livable."

@dirething hunh. What was the range of the horses? I wonder if what happened was the Spanish introduced horses to an area that didn't have them due to unfavorable geography, then later met people from areas more favorable to horses and decided that since "the new world" was obviously all one big thing and not an entire two continents they must be descended from their horses? Then of course ignoring any evidence to the contrary because they "know better".

@syntaktis @keiyakins y'all giving y'all europeans a lot less and a lot more credit than they deserve. presuming ignorance and they just sorta accidentally misunderstood as opposed to they meant harm, they meant to paint us all as lowly savages, subhumans, is not more likely

@dirething @syntaktis I mean harm was absolutely meant. I'm just thinking about why *that* story, and a tiny bit of sorta-not-really plausability like that is enough to get people to convince themselves of some really stupid shit

@keiyakins it's part of a long system of lying. Europeans aren't Innocents. Sometimes it takes 1 year or 10 years or 100 years, but lying is common. Willful ignorance, denying reality to fit a narrative. Just look at white supremacists or prosecutors or juries or neoliberals; they 100% deny fact even with video evidence. They frame things falsely and if somehow needed, claim innocent ignorance. Again, and again.

@dirething Right, but people typically seize on some little thing as "proof" and *then* ignore all evidence to the contrary. I'm absolutely in agreement it's malicious.

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