just because you don't identify strongly with how you look doesn't mean you can't still be hot

hotness isn't some sacred trait reserved only for those people who look in the mirror and say "this is incredibly me"

anyone can be hot if they wanna

@onethousandtwentyfour While I agree, I do kind of wonder about squaring this with your "wholesome shouldn't be a descriptor, because it should be default". Sure, I guess maybe you could argue that hotness shouldn't be default, but I'd say it can apply to anyone (eye of the beholder, &c. &c.).

I guess this is my belated argument in favor of it being meaningful to describe people as wholesome. 🤷​


@aschmitz i mean, i don't have a problem with saying "X is a good person" or "decent" or whatever

and saying one person is good isn't making claims about the goodness of other people, really

my problem with wholesome is that it usually feels abnormalizing, like a person is somehow different from everyone else in their wholesomeness, and sometimes exotifying or like a backhanded compliment

@aschmitz and it's usually over really basic stuff, like "this character in the webcomic actually cares somewhat about other people and isn't completely self-centred and manipulative => this character is wholesome" when like, that's the bare minimum i would expect of anyone, so it feels like lowering the bar

@onethousandtwentyfour Hmm. I suppose in those contexts, it just feels more misused?

I don't know, I was describing elsewhere that there's the basic "don't be a jerk" level of being a decent human, and then various levels of niceness on top. The former doesn't qualify for being wholesome to me, but there are people who do.

Liiike the person who set up a random positive image to be an automatic response in chat when someone says "fml". And so on.

🤷​ I still think it can be used meaningfully.

@onethousandtwentyfour That said, it's a fair point that it's not a good descriptor of "yay, you did the bare minimum to be reasonable.".

@aschmitz yeah tbh i think i'm complaining about a very particular segment of fandom space that glamourizes angst and goes "i need an excuse to like this character even though they don't fit my dark and traumatized self-image" and so "wholesome" is how they do that

which is like, a niche subcultural thing and not indicative of how the word is necessarily used elsewhere, lol

@aschmitz like for me "wholesome" is the inverse of "edgy" and with all the same problems

@onethousandtwentyfour Mm, fair enough. I'm more used to it being applied to real people (and, happily, people I talk with sometimes). The differences make sense, though.

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